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Which version of "The Old Man and the Sea" do you think is better?
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53 comments:
If Santiago was an arm wrestler when he was younger, why is it that now his hands are so weak? ALso, how come his left hand has always decieved him? Could it be that maybe he injured it at a young age?
Normally when you have a cramp do you eat something to make it better? Why do you think the old man thinks that eating can relieve him of his cramp?
Santiago catchs a bonito tuna fish, does that count as catching a fish if he didn't struggle with it and that he is just going to use it as bait?
When Santiago went to sleep, why did he dream about porpoises? Also, why does he throw the dolphin fish overboard? Isn't he able to eat it?
How long will it be before the fish dies out? What is manoloin doing back home? The arm wrestling match lasted from Sunday morning to Monday morning. Didn't they get tired?When will Santiago realize he's too far?
On page 72 when Santiago says, "Can it be anger, or greater speed he makes that brings him out?" (In context to most fish he catches) I think it's because the fish is hungry because most or all fish he catches must be hungry. Also I don't think it counts that Santiago caught the tuna and the dolphin because it wasn't big enough.
Is it just me or does Ernest Hemingway use a lot of the same words. For example he uses the word phosphorescence. dictionary.com says that
Phosphorescence means:
Persistent emission of light following exposure to and removal of incident radiation. I counted and he uses the word at least seven times so far in O.M.A.S.!
From what A.S said, my comment is that since this was published and written in the fiftys', there were a lot of things that were diffent back then. People followed rituals and things like that. Some fables still stayed like "If you eat, you have to wait at least twenty before you can go into the water." There are things that people made up "back in the day" and maybe the "eat food and you won't have a cramp" ritual was one thing that they followed. Also this is in Cuba, and maybe they have different rituals and thinkings than we do in the states and in 2008.
Didnt the boy say that he would try to tell his fishermen to go far out? What ever happened to Manolin? Why is it that the old man kepps talking to the fish, when he says that he is'nt crazy?
M.T that is a good point. Maybe it is just because he is old and that is why he's weak. Also his left hand like Santiago said wasn't trained well. He just thought he wouldn't be using his left hand. J.B Santiago said that the dolphin fish wasn't good to eat raw and maybe that's why. Also go to this link, it's the definition for porpoise. Look at the verb without an object : http://dictionary.reference.com/search?r=2&q=porpoises.I think the fish that Santiago is fighting is the male fish that Santiago saw when he and the boy caught the female fish. I think the male fish knows who is trying to catch him.
Am.H, that is a very interesting theory that you have mentioned (about the fish being the male that was the companion to the female that Santiago killed...). That is actually the first time I've heard that idea brought up by a student.
C.N. - You are correct. Manolin did say that he'd lead his fisherman out farther to keep an eye on the old man. I'm not sure why he didn't. Perhaps they had a fish of their own to deal with?
Maybe his arms are weak because they wore them self down.
C.N and Mr.Gallo you make a good point. Maybe the fisherman didn't want to listen to Manolin because he's just a boy. Do you think Manolin has the same relationship with the other fisherman like he does with Santiago?
m.t, I don't really think that his hands are that weak. Other wise he wouldn't be able to hold on to that giant fish that's towing him.
am.h 7/8-2,
I don't think that Manolin has the same kind of relationship with the other fisherman as he does with the old man. They seemed to be good friends at the beginning of the book. The old man didn't want to take Manolin probably because he was afraid that Manolin would get hurt.
a.s 7/8-3,
Thats a good question because I really dont know if you should eat something when you have a cramp, but i believe the old man thought that eating would relieve him of his cramp because he said that it would give him strength. I guess its kinda like when you have a headache or something because it could be caused from not eating. Also when you play sports they say you should eat pasta the night before because the carbs give you energy. So i think in a way eating something does make things better.
Great comments and questions so far, everyone! Here's something I'd like to see some responses on. Based on what we learned in class, please point out any themes, ideas, or objects from the story that may have been inspired by Ernest Hemingway's experiences in his own life. Try to think of more than just the obvious ones...
If the shark took a bite of the fish, would the blood attract more sharks?
I think that the story may turn out that once Santiago returns to land, there is hardly any of the fish left, and he is the only one who knows how big the fish was.
How much do you think that Santiago will really get in the end for the fish, do you think he will be rich or will he just have to live with the memory and the glory of what happened out at sea?
m.t.-- the reason his left hand is strong is because he always arm wrestled with his right hand when he was younger. My reasoning is that since he always used his right hand, not his left, it didn't get enough training, so now that he is older and his bones and muscles are weaker, his right hand was always stronger but his left hand is getting worse faster.
a.s.--the old man thinks that since he has not eaten, he is weaker, and he will get stronger from the raw fish. When his body is stronger from rest and food, it will be able to heal faster.
a.k.-- he caught the fish, so that counts as a fish naturally, however, it is not especially of importance as it will not benefit him with food or money. Nevertheless, it is a fish, and it saved him form having to buy one of those fish to use as bait. this fish is also very important because it led to his catching of the marlin.
j.b.-- the dolphin fish was very bad for him to eat. he was afraid that he would become nauseated, and lose his strength. I think that the dream about about the porpoises showed that he was having strange things going on in his head while he was out at sea.
I do happen to remember from that video that he moved to cuba and became a fisherman. the young boy in the book might be his son in real life. I'll think of some more later.
A.S.783,
You're right i have never heard of eating something to relieve a cramp. I looked up hand cramps on the Internet and what to do for them, none of the articles mentioned eating something to releive the cramps. Also in the book i noticed that when Santiago ate fish to help relieve his cramp, instead of immediate eleif from the cramp it took a couple of hours.
O.M.A.S Question,
Do you think that if Santiago did not tie all those smaller lines together that when the Marlin pulled it, it would slip right out of Santiago's hands?
I think that Santiago won't ever make it bak to shore because Ernest Hemmingway doesn't seem like the type of writer who wants a happy ending.
Did Santiago catch a flying fish or a dolphin I forgot?
You make a good point Am.H7-8-2. I think that the boy and Santiago had a strong relationship because he had been whith him since he was five years old. I think the new fishermen just wants to take atvantage of Manolin? Am.H what do you think?
l.r 7-8-2 I think that the line would have sliped out of Santiago's hands because if it wasn't long enough he would have lost it in the ocean.
I.R.782,
If the man did not tie the different lines together it would haev slipped out of his hands. Also if he did not tie together the other lines it may not have slipped out of his hands because he is strong. Even if he did not lose the line the fish would have noticed the pulling of the line in his mouth and jumpped and try to dislodge the hook from its mouth
JB782,
I think that the old man dreamed of porpioses becasue he had just caught a porpoise. Also the man threw the fish meat over board because while he was sleeping he had rolled his face into to it, he woke up with fish in his face. The fish was going bad and was making him nausuous. That is why he threw it over board.
in the portion of the book we have just read Santiago has caught the fish and has tied it to his skiff. HE is making his way home when a shark comes and takes a bite out of his marlin. Earnest Hemingway forshadows that this shark will not be the only one ot vome aftyer the marlin Santiago has caught. If this shark is not the only one who is coming then how will Santiago sell this fish? or will even have anything left to sell?
D.R Santiago caught a tuna and then adolphin fish.
C.N that is actually a really good point. I never thought of that. Also remember his father didnt want him fishing with the old man anymore. So I'm not totally sure they are just taking advantage of him. But they could be telling to do all the labor (such as carrying all the harpoons and such).
Santiago didn't catch a porpoise he caught a dolphin fish. Isn't there a difference because the fish is smaller and doesn't come up for air?
Why does it seem that no one cares that Santiago hasn't been seen for two days? Wouldn't at least the boy worry about him?
When Santiago kills the sharks, don't the other sharks smell the dead sharks blood too? if they do, then why do they only want to eat the marlin?
Didn't Santiago say when he was killing the fish that he didn't want to hit him on the head with the harpoon because it would go crazy? So then why did he hit the shark on the head? The shark took the harpoon down with him because he was hit on the head.
c.n. thats a good point, I've actually wondered that but maybe Manolin is worried about Santiago but we just don't know because we only see the story from Santiago's point of view.
Maybe sharks feel that they shouldn't eat another shark...I guess it's not a shark eat shark world.
How come the old man always dreams about lions when he is a fisherman? I understand that he saw those things as a boy, but what does that have to do with fishing?
What was the name fisherman who made fun of Santiago in the begining of the book.
On pages 78 and 79 of The Old Man and the Sea, Ernest Hemingway used phosphorescence a lot. He uses it in three different ways,phosphorescence, phosphorescent and phosphorus.
t.w, I think he dreams about the lions, because it was a big point in his life that he likes to look back on.
M.C 7/8-2,
You are right about the other sharks smelling the dead shark's blood, but the shark sunk after Santiago killed it and the smell could have also been not as strong as the marlins due to the fact that the marlin had been hurt by Santiago, and then again by the shark.
I forgot, did santiago eat the two flying fish he found inside the dolphin? If not what did he do with them?
t.w. i think Santiago dreams about the lions because all day he's out fishing and when he is sleeping is really the only time he actually could remember anything from his childhood. he might also just really like that memory so he thinks about it in his sleep, but, when you're sleeping you don't really have control over what you dream about. he also may miss his childhood or africa.
Do you think Santiago and Manolin will catch a lot of fishes if they team up again?
k.y. i think that when Manolin and Santiago fish together again they wont catch any fish for a while but then they will because that seems to be the way that santiago fishes
KY and MC, I think that if they team up, they can do anything.
But then again, I do think that Santiago won't end up waking up from sleeping, because he IS an old man, after all, and everything that he went through in those few days was pretty traumatic to his old body. and I think Hemingway leaves that up to the reader because he ends the book, mentioning the fact that the old man was SLEEPING, and dreaming about Lions. Fierce animals, right?
I'm pretty convinced that he doesn't wake up.
Y.S., interesting point (I'm impressed - posting on your birthday?). It is very true that we never actually find out if the old man wakes up. However, I do believe that if there is any possible way for him to wake up and avoid death, Manolin will be there to make sure it happens.
I think that the ending was very weak. Considering how great of a writer Hemingway was, couldn't he have put a little more effort into the ending? I mean, the rest of the book was fine, it just seemed like he got lazy at the end.
If the book continued on from the end, what do you think the townspeople would do with the fish remains? I think it would be nice, if the people put the fish remains somewhere by the sea so fishermen can be inspired to try to do their best. It would also be a reminder to them how great Santiago was to overcome so many things on his journey at sea.
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